Posts by Muddy Waters

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

Muddy Waters

Cedars, you said, in part, about AAWA's Mission Statement: " nowhere does it say that we will use internet forums in our decision making process."

Well, that sounds reasonable. HOWEVER, you WILL and DO use internet forums to gather support for AAWA, to announce, advertise and promote AAWA, and to ask for volunteers and other help. And you've mentioned in a few other posts on this thread that you DID talk about AAWA on another forum to gather ideas for the name and to get feedback.

Once again, and apologies if this horse is long beaten and dead now, but for a person who actively runs a SURVEY website for the JW community, it does surprise me that more input wasn't gathered regarding this aspect. Anyhoo. It also sounds that in wanting to surprise many people with this, you neglected to inform some of your potential key supporters.

A few people have described this forum as "too bickery, too divided, too wild-west" -- yet it is the top forum on Google whenever JW topics and subjects come up. It has a huge following and yes, you'll get some odd or combative responses, but for the most part, this forum has been a treasure house of information, JW history, support, and help as well. This forum has many long-time active users and ex-Bethelites, elders, MS's, etc., who have great insights and experience.

I for one, value many of the people here and the level of thoughtful comments and themes which get discussed here. You get an oddball comment, or a derisive voice, but this does not detract from the main information and value.

Well. I suppose enough has been said. Have a good day, all. :)

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

Muddy Waters

Hey, Cedars, that's all right. No worries. As mentioned, I support and laud the AAWA's aims, goals, and mission statement.
(even if I don't totally like the name!) :)

You asked me if I ran a business, and at first wasn't going to answer, but thought you'd find this funny... but YES, I do, lol! I am co-owner of a small cleaning company! (What a surprise, hey! Imagine that! -- a JW or ex-JW rather, in the cleaning business!) But our company is *limited* rather than incorporated.

All the best to you and AAWA.

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

Muddy Waters

Cedars, by only posting a PARTIAL quote from my opinion/observances, you neglected to respond to the MAIN point I was making.

My post (at bottom of page 12) read:

Cedars, regarding your reply to Vidiot:

Vidiot: "... had you guys considered fielding the JWN community for name suggestions?"

Cedars: "JWN is great and we value its support. For this reason we approached Simon directly before posting about AAWA, just to make sure we weren't treading on any toes. However on the decision-making side we are essentially running a business - and businesses are run by small groups of committed individuals and not by hundreds or thousands of people with completely varying mindsets, objectives and agendas. In the case of setting up AAWA, we preferred weeks of careful thought and deliberation between a group of likeminded and established activists to open debate on an internet forum. I think, as time passes, this will prove to have been the most prudent approach, but we are happy to let time be the judge of that."

I appreciate that you're running a business, yet I feel a bit hurt by this statement. After all, you do manage a website called JW SURVEY, and you do know that there are many intelligent, thoughtful people here at JWN who could give you valuble insight and opinions. I appreciate the aims, goals, and mission statement of AAWA, yet only a very small community of people were actively involved (eight people) and you wished to spring your newly formed non-profit organization as a surprise to everybody here.

You are asking for active support, contributions, volunteer help, donations, etc., yet you have excluded so much valuble input from so many esteemed and active people from this forum.

I do not wish to sound complaining. But your answer to Vidiot lacks some validity especially given the years you have spent in compiling information from surveys and the valuble information you have been given through your surveys. At some point you do need to come to a decision and reach consensus, I understand that. It just feels like there was HASTE and secrecy in putting your new association together. But perhaps not, as I do not know anything that has happened behind the scenes and the many emails and private messages and correspondence, legal activity, etc., which must have been going on as you incorporated this new association.

But when you run a website which very specifically asks for information through SURVEYS, it rather surprises me that there was no survey taken regarding a name for this association that you and a select few were putting together.

I do wish you all the best and I do very much agree that you have a worthy mission and goals through AAWA.

...

As you can see from the CONTENT and whole of my post, I was rather questioning your reply to Vidiot regarding gathering input from more people concerning a name for your newly-formed association, especially seeing as how you run and operate a website specifically designed to gather information from SURVEYS.

Anyway, carry on, and have a fine day, dear sir. I do applaud the lofty goals and aims of AARWA.

- Muddy

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

Muddy Waters

Cedars, regarding your reply to Vidiot:

Vidiot: "... had you guys considered fielding the JWN community for name suggestions?"

Cedars: "JWN is great and we value its support. For this reason we approached Simon directly before posting about AAWA, just to make sure we weren't treading on any toes. However on the decision-making side we are essentially running a business - and businesses are run by small groups of committed individuals and not by hundreds or thousands of people with completely varying mindsets, objectives and agendas. In the case of setting up AAWA, we preferred weeks of careful thought and deliberation between a group of likeminded and established activists to open debate on an internet forum. I think, as time passes, this will prove to have been the most prudent approach, but we are happy to let time be the judge of that."

I appreciate that you're running a business, yet I feel a bit hurt by this statement. After all, you do manage a website called JW SURVEY, and you do know that there are many intelligent, thoughtful people here at JWN who could give you valuble insight and opinions. I appreciate the aims, goals, and mission statement of AAWA, yet only a very small community of people were actively involved (eight people) and you wished to spring your newly formed non-profit organization as a surprise to everybody here.

You are asking for active support, contributions, volunteer help, donations, etc., yet you have excluded so much valuble input from so many esteemed and active people from this forum.

I do not wish to sound complaining. But your answer to Vidiot lacks some validity especially given the years you have spent in compiling information from surveys and the valuble information you have been given through your surveys. At some point you do need to come to a decision and reach consensus, I understand that. It just feels like there was HASTE and secrecy in putting your new association together. But perhaps not, as I do not know anything that has happened behind the scenes and the many emails and private messages and correspondence, legal activity, etc., which must have been going on as you incorporated this new association.

But when you run a website which very specifically asks for information through SURVEYS, it rather surprises me that there was no survey taken regarding a name for this association that you and a select few were putting together.

I do wish you all the best and I do very much agree that you have a worthy mission and goals through AAWA.

10

I think you will find hours and hours of fascination to be had here.....

by Terry in

http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/jehovahswitnesses.htm.

jehovah's witnesses.

the religion most analysed in investigator magazine is jehovah's witnesses.

Muddy Waters

Awesome resource! Thank you, Terry!

535

AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

by cedars in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

http://www.jwactivists.org.

facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

Muddy Waters

I too, feel the "anti" sounds aggressive and angry, and could be (if you excuse the expression) a "stumbling block" to JWs who are still indoctrinated or "waking up".

I *LOVE* Stonewall's suggested name: "Association Against Watchtower Abuse" (and his observations on page 10 on this thread). Also agree with Flipper's comments about the AAWA's name which Flipper elaborated on as well (page 9 of this thread).

Would it be very difficult to change the name now?

Having given input about the name, I love the aims and goals of this association and its 5 main issues with the WTS. Terry gave some excellent suggestions in his post (page 9 of this thread), which I'm sure many would appreciate being considered.

- Muddy

39

There is a Mole in Brooklyn

by Oubliette in

reading cedar's excellent article about the july 15, 2013 new-light" study edition of the watchtower got me thinking:.

the control freaks in brooklyn known as the governing body (aka fds) must be having conniption fits knowing that there is a mole in bethel leaking information to apostates!

"three weeks ahead of its expected release date in mid-april, a scanned copy of the july 15 2013 "study edition" of the watchtower was leaked to the office of jwsurvey by a conscientious active witness within the organization.".

Muddy Waters

Haha, guess what... you know how there's ads on this site... well, Google must do a word search and then comes up with whatever matching ad it thinks the reader will be interested in.

Guess what ad is on this page now -- "Mole Extermination! We provide the best pest control services for over 80 years..."

Just had to share that because I thought it was rather hilarious.

18

Governing Body Members Appointed By Jesus Christ And Not Men?

by frankiespeakin in

this is an unfounded delusion or lie either one take your pick.

blondie quoted this on another post and i'm pasting it here.:.

*** w01 4/15 p. 29 do you remember?

Muddy Waters

It amazes me now to think of all the Bible verses I used to believe and QUOTE, without even "hearing" them...

Examples:

"Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs...." - Psalm 146:3

"We must obey God as ruler rather than men." - Acts 10

"Cursed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in earthling man..." - Jer. 17:5

"I well know... that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." - Jer. 10:23

"The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate." - Jer. 17:9

"... man has dominated man to his injury." - Ecc. 8:9

"There is no salvation is anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved." - Act. 4:12

2

The FDS and its original "Jezebel" influence...

by Muddy Waters in

i've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where i heard what.. .

but it seems that in one of the books i read (coc maybe?

), it was mentioned that maria russell, charles russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine.

Muddy Waters

Ah ha! Thanks to a wonderful person on another forum, I found the source to this information! It is from the book, Apocalypse Delayed, by James Petton, on pp. 33-34!!
Will post some excerpts from that in a little while, have some reading to do!

2

The FDS and its original "Jezebel" influence...

by Muddy Waters in

i've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where i heard what.. .

but it seems that in one of the books i read (coc maybe?

), it was mentioned that maria russell, charles russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine.

Muddy Waters

I've done so much reading and research these past couple of years, it's sometimes difficult to remember from where I heard what.

But it seems that in one of the books I read (CoC maybe?), it was mentioned that Maria Russell, Charles Russell's wife, used to write articles for his new magazine. This is way back when and before he decided she was getting too big for her britches. Or something like that. However, this person/author said it was SHE who decided that Russell was the "faithful and discrete slave"! It was SHE who originally interpreted this parable into a whole prophecy.

So... if we apply this knowlege (so sorry, I wish I remembered the exact source where I read this! Perhaps somebody here knows to what book or author I am referring?) -- then it means that the whole FDS/GB is following a teaching that was first explained and taught and promulgated by a WOMAN, yes, a LOWLY FEMALE!! (I picture the GB as a group of greedy, grasping Ferengi now, lol!) but in their mysognyistic way they can apply this parable-turned-prophecy totally to themselves and especially to MEN ONLY.

It's very amusing to me to think of this. Would really appreciate if somebody did know or could point out the source for this... thank you! :)